Cheryl Contee: ALC ChangeMakers Podcast Interview
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Audio Only - All Participants: [00:00:00] Hi everybody. Welcome. It's Jennifer Sconyers here at the ALC ChangeMakers Podcast. I am here with Cheryl Contee. Welcome Cheryl. Thank you for having me, Jennifer. Of course. So for our listeners, Cheryl and I have been probably orbing each other in the progressive movement space for, I don't know, a decade.
We don't need to talk about years and ages, girl. Okay. I am forever young. I don't know about you. Yes, yes. Um, so what prompted me really to invite Cheryl to the podcast is she has a new book that she's gonna tell us about AI for Nonprofits. I know at ALC we work with a lot of nonprofits, and right now they're wrestling with AI and what to do and so many implications and so.
I've been telling groups that we work with, check out Cheryl's book. So Cheryl's here [00:01:00] where I can ask some questions and really she can just kind of lay out the book and where it came from and, and how she would envision people utilize this great resource. So welcome Cheryl. Thank you so much. Yes. Um, well let's start with your leadership journey.
Um, what brought you here? Like what brought you to AI and and tech? Well, you know, when you look at my career, uh, it's really the merger between a, a couple of different influences. At least you know, one, you know, my major at Yale was ethics, politics, and economics. Mm-hmm. But. As a scholarship student, at that time you were required to have a job.
And long story short, the second highest paying job, uh, was being, you know, what they called then a computer assistant or help desk. And uh, so I did that for three years at college. And, you know, looking back. You know, my career really has combined, you know, those, those two [00:02:00] things, you know, where, how can I use emerging tech, uh, and innovation, uh, to inspire greater impact, um, you know, in nonprofits, you know, and foundations and of course, you know, mission driven, uh, companies.
That's awesome. Well, tell us a bit about, um. This intersection between artificial intelligence and nonprofits, right? Because I think the AI conversation's been happening for a few years, but it's really feels new to the nonprofit space, or new-ish, at least. Tell us a bit more about that and just like your approach and philosophy on that.
Sure. Well, one of the reasons my co-author, Darien Rodriguez Haman and I wrote AI for Nonprofits was because, you know, one of the things we were hearing, you know, we both worked with hundreds of nonprofits over the years in foundations. Of course, one of the things we heard was, oh, well, and sometimes in a very holier than thou, uh, tone, oh, well we [00:03:00] are not using AI at, at this organization.
Which, you know, right. To which. I was like, sweetie, baby, honey, I don't, I don't think you understand what's happening here. There's no not using ai. In fact, you have been using what we call classifier AI behind the scenes for 10 to 15 years, right? When you're using Amazon, when. Or UPS or what, you know, any kind of online shopping, for example, uh, any kind of online banking is using AI.
Anything you know that you're using that probably involves a database of some sort is also using AI. Uh, and here's what's up. AI's using you, so why not get into the driver's seat? This is a moment for nonprofit leaders. And mission-driven leaders to actually take the reins. This is still a very, very new, uh, innovation and there's lots of opportunity to shape how adoption, uh, is gonna look like.[00:04:00]
That's great. Can you just like, walk us through from your vantage point, and I just wanna tell listeners, this is a very thorough. Book. Right? It really kind of breaks it down. It feels almost like a how to or maybe textbook or, or guide if you will, that you should keep with you when you have your AI questions.
Really walk us through kind of how you all chose to break that down. Because there's also expertise, like it's not just you pontificating, but AI. You actually inter interviewed quite a few people for this book. Yeah, absolutely. Well that was our goal, right? To provide a real field guide. There are some amazing books out there like Beth Cantor's, you know, The Smart Nonprofit, et cetera.
She was one of the first. But you know, a lot of those were more sort of theoretical, right? Anticipating, you know, what was going to happen. Uh, and we wanted a book that was very much how to, you're you nonprofit leader are ready to roll up your sleeves, ready to get in there. But you would like to do [00:05:00] it safely.
Mm-hmm. Uh, ethically and responsibly. So yeah, we have, uh, 57 different contributors across quite a few, almost every sector you can think of, whether it's corporate or technical or nonprofit, philanthropic, uh, startup, et cetera. Because we really wanted to have a broad base. Uh, there are 600 pages. Uh, it takes two years, uh, to write it.
So what we recommend, and it's in the book, but just since you're listening, y'all, uh, you know, what we recommend is that you look at the table of contents, right? Figure out where you are, where are you struggling? Zero in. On those. Nobody has time to read. I mean, the book is gigantic. Like, no, ain't got time in these times to read a big old book.
So we're not expecting you to do that. Instead, isolate the things that you're challenged by and then come back, as you said, Jennifer, you know, it's, it's really that as know kind of, uh, you know, [00:06:00] base level, uh, tome that you can, that you can come back to later as your needs evolve. Um, thank you for that, Cheryl.
So what would you say are some overall best practices? And I, and I say this because, so at ALC we work with a lot of nonprofits, work on democracy work, um, environmental work, right? And I will name that I've noticed particularly in the environmental or conservation spaces, right? Um, there's a real ethical conversation and it has to do with environmental.
Impact. And I know there's some groups who've made the hard line that they will not adopt AI because it goes against their, um, their ethic or their ethos or their value system around the environment, while others are taking a pragmatic stance saying, well, we will use it under these conditions. What would be a best practice for groups where they are having an ethical or moral challenge with AI [00:07:00] adoption?
This is a frequently asked question. It comes up a lot. And you know, I'm glad that people are thinking that way. That's actually a really good thing, you know, and thank you for being conscious about that. You know, first off, I would say this isn't a choice. Okay. Again, you are already using AI whether you like it or not.
So the cons, even this, the concept that you could choose this, there is no choice. Every kind of software that you're using, if they haven't already integrated some form of artificial intelligence into, uh, behind the scenes, they will. Probably within the next six months. So this isn't really an option, but you know, to make you feel better for those you know, who are conscious.
Yes. Right now data centers, you know, can and are taking up a lot of energy, however. The globe is actually on a, an accelerating snowball of clean energy, [00:08:00] adoption and uh, clean energy. If you think about it, it's just technology, right? Like oil. You gotta physically pump it out of the ground, you know, coal, you gotta dig it out of the ground or blow off a mountaintop or something stupid like that.
What we know about technology and clean energy as a technology is that it gets faster. Smarter. Mm-hmm. Cheaper. Right? More abundant. More accessible over time. And that's happening. So for example, here in California where I live, California is now two-thirds clean energy. Mm-hmm. The, the largest economy in the world.
We're the fourth largest economy in the world. It is the largest economy that has achieved majority. Uh, the Netherlands where I'm heading, uh, next week is 50%. It's 50%, uh, clean energy, uh, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The largest oil producer in the world. Mm-hmm. Plans to be [00:09:00] 100% clean energy for their own electrical grid by 2030.
Mm-hmm. So, like for those of you who are concerned about, you know, energy use. You know, I hear you. And the environmental impact, but that is a problem that is very quickly being solved. Mm-hmm. And you can imagine that, you know, at all of the, you know, folks who are building these big data centers are going to want to be using clean energy.
They're, they're gonna wanna shift those over. Mm-hmm. If for no other reason, Jennifer, then it's cheaper. Mm-hmm. But it's just, it will just be cheaper and easier for them to do that. So, uh, and then finally, I am a co-founder, uh, over and senior advisor over at Change Agent ai. Hmm. That's the change.ai and that is, uh, a software, um, that is competitive.
It does all of the same things that a ChatGPT or a Claude does. Mm-hmm. Um, but it is tailored very [00:10:00] specifically for, you know, people who are environmentally conscious. It is environmentally very, uh, you know, lean that way in terms of how we're using energy. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, it is, uh, tailored to, uh, you know.
Nonprofit ways of talking and thinking. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, diverse images and videos. You know, it's just, it, it is, you know, because one thing that people might not realize, if you actually look at the terms of service of say, you know, a OpenAI or Anthropic, uh, they're very clear. They don't want political speech.
And in these times what isn't political, right? What isn't political? So, you know, the, the chance that you know, much like with Facebook, you know, and what used to be Twitter and some of the others where, you know, I, I used to run a lot of digital ads, I have a lot of experience in that. And it was always a constant sort of figuring out, well, what, what will they accept in an [00:11:00] ad?
Right? Because they don't wanna do politics unquote, right. Um, so. What if you didn't have to deal with a lot of that, right? What, what if you were using, you know, a, uh, an LLM that you can't, large language model mm-hmm. That you can control, you know, where you can keep your data private, where you know that there are people who are being, you know, environmentally conscious running it, uh, and who you know are putting in the same shared values that you have.
I love that. 'cause I was gonna ask you like, where should people start, right? For socially conscious folks. So it can be people who are in progressive nonprofit spaces or just like B Corps, people who care about the environment, social impact. I'm hearing um, say your music one more time because I wanna make sure we promote.
Sure it's, it's change agent ai. Mm-hmm. And yeah, you know, it, I think it's important to have alternatives, you know, so I think the change agent AI provides a really [00:12:00] strong and very serviceable, uh, alternative, um, that again, you know, keeps your data private, you know, it, uh, allows you to customize. Um, you know, within, and, and you know, you can participate in how, you know, your implementation is trained, you know, what types of language, et cetera.
So, uh, you know, I think it's, if for those of you, you know, head over to the change.ai, uh, you know, if you're like, Hey, I don't feel com for a lot of different reasons and I totally get it. Yeah. A different reasons. You're not down with chat pt, you don't wanna get down with Claude, I get it. Or llama, um mm-hmm.
You know, check out change agent. Okay, well, great. Yeah, I definitely wanna give people the resource and tool and just really quickly so people understand there's different types of ai, and this is something where this came up in a board conversation that I was in a nonprofit board, right? Because I think those of us use things like Grammarly, right?
Or like whatever. And then so like predictive, then there's generative. Can you just give us like a quick [00:13:00] rundown, the different types of AI and like just like how should we navigate? Because some we don't actually opt into, they're just there. Well, exactly. Exactly. Again, you know, I, you know, I, I feel a lot of compassion for the folks who are saying, well, you know, I'm, I feel uncomfortable using AI and I totally get it.
Or, you know, you're worried that AI is somehow gonna take your job if you let it in the door. And, you know, one of our contributors said something, uh, really fun, which was, Hey, AI's not gonna take your job, but someone who knows how to use AI well is gonna take your job. And, yeah. A hundred percent true.
Mm-hmm. You know, at every juncture of a big, uh, technical leap, there have been people who've been worried that. The new technology was gonna take their jobs, and sometimes it has, but there's still other jobs and oftentimes new jobs. Great example. People might remember the word Luddite, right? Mm-hmm.
Luddites, that was literally early 19th century. A [00:14:00] group of, you know, textile workers and weavers who were worried that, you know, automated looms and new machinery was gonna take their jobs. And they would go around and like smash the looms and like. And now we kind of smile at it because it seems naive.
Right? But, you know, to, to say like, I'm not gonna use ai. It is very Luddite, okay? Mm-hmm. Because right there, it's, it's being integrated. So we talked a bit about classifier ai, right? Which is the, the AI that is. Uh, remembering how you're using it and will serve you. You know, for example, you know, you're on Walmart, it will maybe remember what you bought the last time and serve up, you know, something new that's very customized to you and personalized or, you know, you bought something on say, an Amazon and how does it get to you in two days?
Ai, right? Yeah. Is what helps the trucks route and predict, you know, how, how soon you're gonna get it, et [00:15:00] cetera. Or, you know, maybe you are using, uh, some sort of like mail software like MailChimp or, um, you know, Bonterra or Blackbaud. Those are also using AI already, right? Even Action Network is using machine learning and integrating.
Oh, yeah. No, I've, I've talked to the leadership there, you know, at length. Um, and actually they, Brian Young, the Founder of Action Network, uh, is one of our contributors in AI for nonprofits. And, you know, so he talks at, in some detail about how they're using machine learning. So, you know, there, there's no way getting around it.
So yes, there is, uh, so classifier, there's predictive analytics, right? Where, you know, it can analyze, right? The, you know. How you, how people have been using your website, for example, or your social media platforms, uh, and or, you know, your ads, ads, digital ads that's been using AI for a very long time to place, you know, your, your ads.
Oh, yes. Mm-hmm. So. You know, that's, [00:16:00] you know, predicting how, okay, if someone clicked on this ad before, are they likely to click on this ad again? Or, you know, we know that we have a big campaign coming up. You know, here's what happened in the last five campaigns. Can you help us predict, you know, what kinds of audiences?
Um, so that's gonna get much more sophisticated over time. Uh, of course there's content development. I think that, you know, uh, uh. AI is great for just like helping you generate stuff. I mean, that's one of the ways in which, you know, those who, you know on the far right, you know, they, they are really good at just flooding the zone.
And I think that, you know, those of us who are not Nazis, uh, need to, you know, be a lot more prolific, frankly, and, and, and louder and, and shout them down, you know, with nutritious content. So, you know, you can use AI to. Uh. Build rough drafts of your emails or your social media posts. I like, [00:17:00] there's a tool called Opus ai, where you can take a whole bunch of raw video.
Opus AI will watch your video within seconds, and then it will select, uh, several, like, you know, at least 10 different snippets that they think will be best, uh, you know, best performing on social media. Right. Okay. I mean. Yeah, and that happens within like a two minute window. Imagine how long it would take you on your own.
You know, if you're a relatively small nonprofit or a startup, you know, or a small foundation, how long would it take you right, to sort of figure that out on your own, or, I like pop ai, you know, for making slides you can actually, you know, create the slide. Text maybe in change agent or a chat GPT, and then you can import that text into pop ai and it will literally just create within seconds, a whole deck for you.
Now, AI is like a really smart intern, you know? Yeah, [00:18:00] it, it, uh, can do a lot of things, but it doesn't have the experience you have. It doesn't have the sophistication that you have. It doesn't have the context and meaning and passion that you have. So I say, you know, when you're doing content development, you want to remain the human in the loop, and literally, that is a technical term, HITL, human in the loop.
You need to remain the human in the loop Who's ensuring that? However you're using ai. You know that, that there's the quality, right, that that matches. So always consider that stuff a first draft. Yeah. I love this. I love this. And I think this is the way we've been talking with our clients about this, right?
Because there are just concerns about will this replace people? We'll actually do it, right. No, no. Right. But there's a smart way of doing it. And also whatever it spits out requires human eyes and editing. Right, exactly. Yeah, it's about augmentation, right? What if you [00:19:00] as a person could just get so much more done in a day?
No one can replace you and your knowledge and your passion, right? But you know what? If you could, you know what? If you could take the things that are on your plate that are the most tedious. The most repetitive, the most time consuming that you hate the most. What if you could get AI to take over those things so you can spend more time doing the work that you love?
That in probably involves more human connection. Yeah, I love this. And we could probably keep talking, Cheryl. Um, where could people buy your book? And also I'm curious, is it gonna be on Audible? Is there gonna be like an audio version for those of us who like have to hear things instead of, that's just a personal curiosity for me.
Oh, yes. Find your book and trust me, we have really been pressing our, uh, because we know that people, of course, if you're listening to Jennifer's podcast, you probably would prefer to listen to the book. Uh, we are pressing the publisher, [00:20:00] uh, for the audio book. They're still working on it. Um, but you know, you can always, you know, take snippets of it.
And, you know, there are lots of things that turn. Uh, you know, other topics into, um, podcasts that you can listen to. So you can always just sort of, you know, upload some content that that's based on ai, uh, for nonprofits and have, you know, and build your own little podcast. I know. Pretty cool. Hmm, that's really cool.
It is really cool. Yeah, we actually did that for, uh, the book. You can find it, uh, on ai, the number four N as in nancy p.org. So AI4np.org. Like AI for nonprofits.org. Uh, and you can hear there's like a five minute podcast that kind of talks about, uh, the book and some of the major themes. Uh, and it's pretty good.
It's pretty cool. And, you know, we generated that using AI, so we hope that that will be coming out soon, probably, hopefully by the time you're listening. Uh, but in the meantime, you know, it's available on Amazon and it's been, we've been really [00:21:00] excited. Jennifer by, you know, the reception of the book, you know, the book was number one in office automation on Amazon for weeks.
Wow. It, uh, achieved top five in the AI category, which is a pretty big one, an even bigger one. Uh, top 10 in business and finance. Hmm. Um, number one, of course, in nonprofit orgs and charities. You know, at one point. But yeah, you know, we didn't code it that way. You know, it wasn't coded for the business audience.
But, you know, Amazon, I think, really put this forward in their own way to encourage people to think about, you know, how can we adopt AI but ethically and responsibly? I love this. I love all of that. And where can listeners find you if they wanna follow you? Uh, well you can find me over aifornp.org, but also I'm on LinkedIn.
Pretty easy to find me. Love this. Well, thank you so much Cheryl. I know our listeners are getting so much out of this. And again, we're gonna have all of these links in the show notes. You can find all of [00:22:00] these links down there. Thanks everybody. Until next time.
