Tauna Batiste ALC ChangeMakers Podcast Interview
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Audio Only - All Participants: [00:00:00] Hi, everybody. Welcome. I'm Jennifer Sconyers, host of the ALC Changemakers Podcast, and today I have a great guest, Tauna Batiste. Welcome, Tauna. Thank you. So for listeners, um, Tauna and I have a similar connection and I've said her name before in this podcast, uh, Beth Van Duyne from Video Stories. She's a super connector and Beth and I both had space at Haven Collective, which I've also named with the podcast, and it's through Beth.
That Tauna and I made a connection this last year. This is like a really new connection, which is like juicy and great. I'm so happy to have her on the podcast. So Tauna, tell our listeners a bit about yourself and your leadership journey. Hey everyone. As she said, Tauna Batiste. I'm the founder and CEO of Drew Alexander Consulting.
We support brilliant leaders in turning their bold [00:01:00] ideas into strategic action. Um, my, my leadership journey I was saying earlier is so layered and it's like, which, which version do we want today? Um, because it, it starts really early. Uh, I'm the oldest child and so I say that you get to be the natural leader, um, in that.
And so from there, I really went into nonprofit service. Intentionally, um, on purpose. I know a lot of folks that we end up there on accident, but I went to school for it and, um, I really learned about being a leader there formally and a people's leader. Um, someone who was concerned about people. I was really taught how to, uh, center a people, the people in, in, in process. And so from there I did a lot of things in the nonprofit space. I ascended all the way to the most [00:02:00] stressful office. Um, and uh, I served in a couple different organizations, but I was executive leader in two rare disease organization organizations. Um. And one kind of regional, one international that really just adjusted and can continue to evolve my leadership style and approach.
Um, the last organization I was with, the folks that we served were terminal patients and their families, and they were pediatrics, so. I was early in my Moming journey. Um, and then here I was helping people that I had a personal connection to, but also were having these major life experiences. Um, and at the same time I was in a space where I was the only, I.
Again. And um, I was [00:03:00] there as we went into the year 2020. Um, and so all of the things we had Breonna Taylor, we had George Floyd, we had COVID. Yes. Um, the world was on fire. Uh, and I had a board who really. Was not inclusive minded. Um, and so I had those, uh, my own personal fires happening at the same time.
And so that was what led me to start the firm. And the firm has, has evolved over the last five years to we, we used to do all of these fun things across the board to really now focus in these three areas of strategic advising and leadership development and our operational excellence trainings. And so.
Um, but as a leader, I think I have really refined through all of that, right? I had a team that I had to lead through [00:04:00] those changes. I had people that were looking to me for guidance and assurance during a, a time and a season. I think that centering people has always been so. Essential to me that it's brought me to this place in leadership.
Um, but it's also, you know, it's been, it's been interesting to also learn that I might have been two people centered and that I sacrificed a lot of what, what me, what, what was. Care for me. I cared about everyone else. Yeah. But I didn't necessarily apply the same rules to the care for myself. So I have multiple instances of burnout.
Yeah. In my leadership journey and. I really have embraced this after this last one knocked me out that that's not the way I want to lead and I don't want to be an example [00:05:00] of, um, work till you die. Yeah. So I have decided and made the adjustments to really lead with intention. Yeah. But in centering my leadership, I had to adapt a new affirmation that gave me pause for.
The first, what, a hundred times I said it, but that I, I am first in my priorities. Oh, listen, that one messed me all the way up, but, but it was so essential to hear myself say that what I needed was a priority. Yeah. And that I was my first priority. And if I took care of me, yeah. I could in fact take care of everyone else.
Yes. But I needed to hear it and I had to undo all of the junk that came with saying it like, oh no. Wait a minute. Yeah, that sounds selfish. That sounds like misaligned. But no, it really is the thing that makes the difference. Yeah, well there's just, [00:06:00] there's just so much there, right? In terms of, first of all, the fact that you intentionally, intentionally said, nonprofits is where I wanna work.
Right? That's a, yeah. People fall into the sector for listeners, you know, we work with nonprofits, work a lot of sectors, but a lot of nonprofit work, right? So that's very. Mission driven. Mm-hmm. Passion driven work, there's a very clear social impact that's happening with the work. Right. So it, it takes, I would call the servant leader.
It takes a kind of, kind of leader who sees themselves, I would say, as a servant leader to really say, this is where I'm gonna put my feet. This is where I'm gonna like, create the conditions to make things better for other people. So that's a, that's a specific type of leadership. And then you also named, excuse me.
Burnout, which. Let me just tell you, it's, it's across sectors, but I'll say especially nonprofits because mm-hmm. You're not sitting around making widgets. Like even if you're making an app, [00:07:00] it's an app that like people's lives. Right, right, right, right. So people, nonprofit leaders tend to pour. Their whole being.
Mm-hmm. We see the similar things in the public sector as well, right? Mm-hmm. But like they pour their whole being into the work, so it's not, you're not just clocking in and clocking out. Like typically your working organizations where there's a personal values alignment in the work, there's a personal.
Drive toward the mission. And so you are thinking about that work. You are working in that space beyond whatever we, we call traditional business. Mm-hmm. Whereas you're, you're in it. So that burnout piece is something I know I experienced when I was a nonprofit professional mm-hmm. Before I started a LC.
It's a, it's a common, it's a common theme. So hearing you say. You experienced it too, in your leadership is poignant. I'm super curious. Tauna, you now have your own business, right? Mm-hmm. Through Drew Alexander Consulting. Yes. Tell us a bit about like what [00:08:00] you're learning in your leadership and how that influenced the consultancy that you've built.
Yeah. Um, well, I burnt myself out over here too, so like I just. I You apply old habits. Yeah, that's true. That's a fact. So what I knew was 24 hour leadership, right? Like that it's always percolating. It's, I'm always thinking about the things, I'm always positioning and preparing and, and processing. Um, and I don't wanna live like that.
So in my own space, it was about identifying what are we doing that that's not. The thing. Yeah. But then it also had a lot, I feel like in Drew Alexander, what's allowed me to be, is even more of my authentic self. Mm. Is to find, because there's no, I'm not, there's no board of people to be like, well, you can't say [00:09:00] that, or you can't do that.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, we talk here early in, in the process, my marketing team asked us like, what? What, what's your brand? What, and I was just looking like, I don't know what alone. Um, but they kept asking like, what is it, what is it like to experience you? Hmm. And it took me about a year and a half, maybe two years to really truly be able to articulate it.
And it came to me one day. I was. Working with me is like working with your auntie, that it is like I bring this big auntie energy, I come and I hold you accountable, but I also encourage you, I also wanna make sure I feed your soul. I also wanna protect you. I also want to see your dreams come true. Mm-hmm.
And it's, that's the experience. Yeah. And so in this space, in in DAC, I've been able to kind of really explore that there's been no bounds. So that I work a lot with [00:10:00] diverse communities and being able to come in and authentically meet them where we are. Yeah, that we don't have to put on airs, and no one has to polish things up for me or not tell me the real truth about what's happening.
You can just be yourself. You can tell me the things, there's no judgment here, but I'm also going to help you. Has been kind of this beautiful evolution in my leadership that has allowed me to both liberate myself, but also be liberation for others that it's like, oh no, you can bring you to this space.
Um, we work a lot with, uh, black women leaders and yeah. I often come in as their primary ally for their projects or for their, you know, their leadership. Yeah. And to be able to provide this safe space, this inclusive space of like, you can be a whole person over here. Yeah. Um, [00:11:00] as opposed to coming to the meeting with the full agenda, with the, you know, I, I, I'm big on like.
Where are you at because mm-hmm. We can talk about the things, but if you're not at a place that you can process it, if you got this other issue happening, we need to, we need to address those things. Um, so it's been a, it's been liberating. It's been a fun time in being able to redefine my terms, my boundaries.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And consulting. We don't talk enough about being able to. Or release clients or decline, um, certain projects. Um, I have found that to be one of the most freeing experiences. I came into one contract, uh, negotiation, and the other person just brought a lot of energy. Yeah. And it wasn't the aligned kind.
Yeah. [00:12:00] And I sat there. During this supposed to be an onboarding call, we are supposed to be moving to the sign portion of the of the day. Yeah. And I sat there. And I had a team member on the call and she said that she just watched me sit back and like, 'cause I'm a lean in Right. I'm in here.
Yeah. And she said, she watched me lean back, put down my notebook and just cross arms. And I felt myself doing it, but I was withdrawing my energy. Yeah. To say, mm-hmm. This is not a safe place for me. And I choose not to engage. Yeah, I, and so before the call ended, I said to her, I think we're gonna withdraw our proposal.
Um, I don't know that we're the right partner for you. I can make some other recommendations. Yeah. Um, of those who might be better aligned to you, but I don't think that this is, uh, something we want to pursue anymore. And the indignation Nation on the other side was, was wild. But at the same [00:13:00] time, like being in, being a leader means.
Hmm. You lead in all spaces, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And being a leader means that you also are allowed to have these boundaries. Like this is, had I taken that work certainly would've led to another cycle of burnout, just because it was energetically draining. Yeah. Um, expectations were really high. They wanted to pay really low.
Yeah. And they wanted to, they wanted me to be their employee, of which I'm not. Yeah. And so it was, it was. Those types of moments where I get to really see, yeah. How are you growing as a leader and yeah. And being able to say no. Yeah. Has been, you know, one of the best parts of it. Yeah. Others think it's scary.
I don't think it's scary. I'm a big, listen, I love Enneagram. We use Enneagram in our work all the time. I'm Enneagram eight. Mm-hmm. Which is the challenger if you don't know. Yeah. Um, but there's, one of the things that we [00:14:00] say about an, uh, Enneagram eight when we teach on it, is that there, their first answer is always no.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I have no problem saying, no, am I gonna stick with it, is the question. So can you convince me otherwise? Um, but it's been freeing to not have the expectations of others. Mm-hmm. To need to mask my initial note mm-hmm. Or accept things that I. People challenged my know before. Right? Yeah.
That no wasn't good enough for them. Yeah. Um, for whatever reason. Yeah. And a lot of times it was this power imbalance. It was, yeah. You know, being in spaces that were, that thought they were inclusive but were not. Yes. Um, and so now I get to be out here free as a bird saying No, thank you. Yeah. The only thing that does not align.
Yeah. Well, Tauna, I just wanna unpack that some more because I think there's a, there's a few things, right? Yeah. There, there's the freedom. [00:15:00] We have a mixture of listeners. We have a lot of women who are Oh yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And women who are small business owners. And I think there's ways that we get preconditioned to not having boundaries or, um, releasing those boundaries with it makes someone else uncomfortable or mm-hmm.
Not feeling like we, we can say no, or like if we have the audacity to say it, how people. Um, experience that, so I know that is, that's like a real. Tension point that I don't in our clients at a see, and like I said, we serve, we serve all genders, but we have a lot of Right, right. A lot of women that we work with directly in leadership.
And this is, this is a thing I'm very curious, so like I know like as, as a practitioner and a business owner, when, when. Times are abundant. Right. And, and the, the clients are flowing in. Saying no feels a lot easier because you are still meeting whatever your financial goals are, the quarterly, annually, whatever that is.
Mm-hmm. [00:16:00] Tell me what it looks like now, like what your choice points are in saying no now given. Our external conditions have really shifted, especially the nonprofit sector where dealing with all struggles with defunding and mm-hmm. All these big, big challenges. Tell me, tell me how you're able to show up in your leadership now.
In a way, you're not burning yourself out. Mm-hmm. You can hold your boundaries. You can still say now. Like what? Like what does it look like today? Yeah. Well, graciously, I think I was able to learn to say no when times weren't abundant. Hmm. It really was, uh, I mean, I was saying no at the very beginning. I remember people saying to me, that must be nice.
And I was like, y'all, I'm out here still trying to figure it out. But I understood the, the unspoken cost. Hmm, right. That the dollars I would get. Uh, one of my early coaches used, coaches used to say every, every dollar is not a good dollar. Every dollar is not worth your time. Mm-hmm. It's, it's not [00:17:00] the equivalent of another dollar.
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. And she was right. And I'm glad I had that as a foundational experience because it is in times when times are more challenging and you're tempted mm-hmm. To, to move beyond your boundaries. I remember a pro, like the last project I took of this type, um. I accepted because I was like, well, I mean, it's kind of aligned like it's working with my target audience.
The project itself was something that we had stopped doing, like the, that type of project because it was just, it was energy draining for me. Gotcha. And so I, um, and I went ahead and accepted it. Yeah. Because I was thinking, yeah, this was, it's been a little while, um, but I was thinking like, well, I mean, we gotta pay the bills.
Right, right, right. And. I had kind of like an out-of-body leadership experience mm-hmm. Where you're in it. Mm-hmm. But you're also observing it. And I watched it progress [00:18:00] and I watched my energy be drained. Mm-hmm. And I watched my joy be diminished in the work. Um, and I started to move down the path towards burnout because it was too much of what I didn't.
Want to do anymore. Yeah. And I made a decision at the close of that project was never again. 'cause the cost is too high. Yeah. So even when we feel like things are thin, I use that opportunity to explore and to lean into, okay, well then I need to figure out new ways and different ways of getting to the thing I desire as opposed to relinquishing that and putting energy into what I don't.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the big thing is like deciding what, what cost is too high. Yeah. Because the cost to me, when it comes to my peace of mind, yeah. When it comes to my longevity as a leader, and we do a lot of work around burnout. So when I say yeah, I'm [00:19:00] recognizing the burnout, I'm also saying I recognize that I am at 50% higher chance of heart disease I'm at, yeah.
A increase and if I add stress to that yeah, then I've increased it even more. Yeah. That I am, you know, also treasured and valued by the people who love me. Mm-hmm. Who would be remiss if I were gone, they could care less about that $5, that $5,000, that 50,000 what their investment is and is in my presence.
Yeah. Is in me continuing to exist. And so there are times where, you know, yeah, I'm tempted, but at the same time I'm like, at what cost? We have to figure out the cost of it all. And so I use it now to give me opportunity as a business owner to think creatively. Yes. About how do I get to my clients? How do I adjust in this season?
Um, like we said, with the nonprofit sector, there's so [00:20:00] much happening. And this is where, um, for me, it's really birthed what I believe is the beginning of a movement is strategy is resistance. Yes. So like we can, we can decide Yeah. To accept what it is. Yeah. What all the things are. Right. Yeah. And there's a lot to process and we don't have to go there, but.
Or Yeah. Yeah. And but we still have power, right? Yeah. And so, or we can decide that we're going to create strategies mm-hmm. That look for the opportunities and the threats. Yes. That instead of focusing on the threat itself, that we look at what that creates. Yes. For me it was like this moment where it clicked on, um, wartime profiteering, right.
So it's this notion. Okay. So during wartime there are always profiteers. Yeah. Right. They're also quietly the people that encourage the war. But when that's, that's not [00:21:00] what we're gonna talk about. Right. Um, but there's this notion of wartime profiteering that those who saw the war coming and position themselves to harness the opportunities in the midst of a threat.
We're ready with whatever. And it could be anything. So you think about, I think back to our childhood when we had multiple wars in the Middle East, um, there was a lot of like base things that needed to be provided. So let's just say you're now sending hundreds of thousands of troops to a place that's very hot, right?
Which means that you now need an influx of canteens. Mm-hmm. So as a business owner, I could say, oh, we're going, I'm making canteens. Mm-hmm. Right. So I can be the supplier. Right. It's finding those needs. And so it just struck me as really interesting that that notion can be applied anywhere. [00:22:00] Yeah. And so if we're in this space where we're creating or what's being created around us is this moment of uncertainty.
What opportunities does uncertainty create for us as nonprofits? You know, I think about like an easy one is in healthcare and in, um, food, you know, security. Mm-hmm. That we have an advanced notice. Mm-hmm. This is gonna be a problem. Yes. Right? Yeah. How do we now create strategies? Yeah. That think about.
Preparing and positioning ourselves. Yeah. For that experience. Right? Yeah. Like I don't wanna, I, I don't want my clients to sit back and wait and say, oh, it's coming. No. The strategy is the resistance, right? Yeah. Like we need to fight on all different levels. Yeah. And I'm not a political organizer, but I am intentional about creating strategy that say I see a famine coming.
Yes. What can I [00:23:00] do? Yes. Today? Yes. To prepare for the famine. Is it systems that I need to put in? Is it process? Is it, is it partnerships? Yep. Is it looking at funding in a different way? Is it preparing my funders who are still bought into the mission and the goal Yep. To say, listen, my, my request of you are going to change because we still believe in this work.
Yeah. And we know we're going to do more of it. Mm-hmm. So it's, it's all of those things. But this is where I come back to like. Strategy can be resistance. Yeah. To all that's happening around us. And it, yeah. It can be both on this global sense of like we're all collectively going through something. Yeah.
But it also is in your life, like when challenge challenges are going to come, strategy is not gonna take away the challenge. Yeah. But if we can position ourselves so that when the, the challenges do come, yeah. We have a plan that can take us around. Through under over like yeah. Then we are empowered in a way that that [00:24:00] prevents and alludes the hopelessness that comes otherwise.
Absolutely. Well, I, I love that notion and for, for listeners, Todd and I, we've been in conversation. We wanna work together because we're just so valued Absolutely. On how this works. And as you know, at a LC, we care about organizations, teams, relationships, their impact. We also do strategy, we have a, a perspective on it.
Mm-hmm. Um, down to being ready to actually do planning. Right. So there's like a pre-planning period that we believe in that. That's very clear, but I just wanna name that, you know, something I've noticed in the sector is there are a lot of people who want strategic planning now. Mm-hmm. Because, and this is, you know, like nonprofits, government, it's really on the front lines.
Right, right, right. The doge cuts hurt so many people, so many organizations. So while there's certain industries. Who haven't felt it hard yet. Yet. Yeah. Yeah. The frontline groups are, have felt it since January. Right. And so it's, it's an opportunity. [00:25:00] It's, it's a hugely challenging time, don't get me wrong.
We'll have some nonprofit leaders on the podcast. We'll hear from directly. Mm-hmm. Um. But it's also an opportunity for innovation agility, like testing different things. Right? So that's, that's the opportunity in it. Mm-hmm. And I'll say something that's unique about the nonprofit sector, and it's also true for different small businesses.
We work with B Corp. Like there's, something about, it's a mindset when you're, when you're mission driven, um mm-hmm. Being innovative and solutions oriented is just part of the sauce and making these modifications run right? So you're used to running probably on less budget than you, like. You're used to solving really complex, hard problems that have a real community impact and you're used getting it done, like for conditions.
Don't make any sense. Right. Like, like, so in some ways this sector is equipped to navigate this challenge better than other sectors. Um, in [00:26:00] terms of folks being able to rise to the challenge and make the pivot, they do really for not only their survival, but for the community impact that their organizations bring.
Mm-hmm. So I just like to name that there is something Yes. Special in unique about the sector. Absolutely. So I'm curious, um, so strategy is resistance. I'm just curious, you know, what else? Do you have cooking or baking right now? Is there something people know about? Do you have a call to action that they can work and play with you?
So we are really promoting our new strategy as resistance masterclass. Oh, so which is essentially what you said, kind of like going into that pre-planning moment, going into a plan. I think one of the things that I see in the sector is that yes, they have the skills. I think it's been such a barrage that people are in fight, fight.
Yeah. Or freeze, right? Yeah. And so it's not that, [00:27:00] I mean, I have clients all the time that are like, we wanna do planning. We don't know where to start. Which I'm sure you do too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and so we love that. I wanna give you a place to start. Yeah. I think it's important that we are able to reclaim our power in this moment.
To just say, I have tools. I can, it may not be a huge strategic plan, it may just be I need to. Plan tactically for the next six months, what we do to even get to Yes. A place of having a strategic plan. Yes. Yes. And so that's why we put together this masterclass to say, listen, let's refresh those skills.
Let's, let's hone in. Let's ground and hope, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The sun is still gonna shine. Yeah, yeah. We're still gonna, we're gonna make it through this season. History shows that, yeah, right. Our experience shows that. Um, but let's say. Where do, where do I get started? Because I'm overwhelmed.
Mm-hmm. Yes. I'm overstimulated there. I, I, I don't know what to do. So one with one of my clients, [00:28:00] we're getting ready to do some strategic planning with, I said to her, I was like, we have to approach strategic planning during this season. Like hurricane season. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I said, and there's three different ways, uh, three tiers, if you will, of how we prepare for a hurricane.
First one, high alert. So we're gonna make sure we have our batteries, things are charged, that we're ready with our plans. Right? Yeah. It may not hit us, but we're gonna be ready to move if it does. Yeah. The second level of alert is it's definitely going to hit us. We're not sure how deeply, and so we've planned a little bit more intentionally.
We've started to take action on those plans. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And the third is that we are gonna take a direct hit and we need to evacuate because we want to continue to exist. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And so as we go into planning, it has to be different than it has been before. Absolutely. That we have kind of this range in our goals that says fall goes [00:29:00] well.
Mm-hmm. This absolutely if it's a little shaky. Yep. That. Yep. If hell breaks loose Yep. This right, because we need to continue to exist. Yeah. And so, but it's preparing you for that notion to, to adjust our thinking a little bit. It's preparing us to say we need to be checking in on our plans every six months.
Mm-hmm. It is not, we're not at, we don't have the luxury of. Setting it and forgetting it on the plan and just deploying it and thinking that it's gonna work like it has in the past because we're not in that season. So it's all of those things. And then when you complete it, you also get to take away an action, like an action worksheet.
So you're, you're ready and you're deployed to go. Yeah. It's a free masterclass. And so that's what's really, really exciting, um, because this is. Part of, you know, what we do as you would do in that pre-planning with our clients. Yeah. So there's definitely, um, deep value attached to it. Yeah. And then also one of the other beautiful things about it is [00:30:00] that we're offering it to networks of people.
Okay. So if you are a funder and you want it to have all of your folks go through and be able to have a live conversation about like, how are you all going to collaborate together? Because I think having those conversations. Is also key. Yeah. We're offering that for free as well. So it's that we, my goal really, you know, we, you hit on it right on the head, is that going into the work, I've always been focused on changing people's lives and supporting our communities and this is a place that we can use our talents to support our, our community organizations that really are holding us up.
And holding us together. Yeah. And it's, it's, you know, part of my love letter back to the sector to say, I see you. I can, let me help, let me, let me help you what I can help with. Yes. Um, to help us really lean into a space Yeah. Of, you know, [00:31:00] this is what we wanna do. And otherwise, you know, we always are excited to talk about new opportunities.
We'll have some retreat. I think we have a couple retreat spots left. Um, for facilitation for this fall, but yeah, you can, you can find us at, um, well, let me tell you where you can find the, the Yes, yes. Masterclass. Yes. You can find that on my LinkedIn.
Um, additionally, if you need to, if you would like to connect with us, we're drewalexanderco.com and that'll take you to our website and you can learn more about the work that we have going on. But we love to see you all in this masterclass. 'cause I really think that that's gonna be just transform transformational for so many people, um, and organizations.
I love that. Well, this is a time for us as consultants to [00:32:00] get really creative, you know what I mean? Like this is so we're all in, in our own ways. I think those of us who are serious. Right? Right. We're actually, we are putting out products and services either that are new to us, that are, that are zone, or like at a LC I'm dusting off some stuff from That's right.
The last administration that worked and dusting off and repurposing today, so. We we're living that value of agility, because that's inspired and meeting the moment where it is. So not what we'd hope it would be, but like where the moment is right. To help people get through that. Well, Tauna, this has just been a pleasure and a joy.
I want you to come back. There's, there's so many things we could talk to, right? Talk about and, and, and so forth. Um, but for listeners. We're gonna put links to on how to find her in the show notes. And as always, you can find more about our podcast and our services at jennifersconyers.com. Until next [00:33:00] time.
